So if the proscribed group changes its name, as many are suggesting, how might that affect its proscription? Would our right-wing Labour government have to bring amended legislation to Parliament each time?
I support the actions of Palestine Action too. Last week on the Palestine march in Leeds, one of the chants was “We are all Palestine Action”. Today, not a mention of it. Perhaps that was wise, but it felt cowardly.
It's not cowardly to not unnecessarily break any laws. You can't help anyone if you're caught up in Kafkaesque litigation, or worse, in prison. In fact I would suggest editing your comment as, bizarrely, under the law, which I'm pretty sure the police and judiciary have to uphold, saying you support a proscribed group is the same as supporting ISIS. All it takes is some Zionist gobshite to report your comment and the bureaucracy would begin.
I feel your struggle with it appearing "cowardly", but there'll be a time to risk ourselves no doubt and this is not it.
at 84, it is impossible to disagree w/ you morag... too many years under my sagggy-baggy abdomen having to bear witness to "THIS SHIT of what's being gone to palestinians". having volunteered in palestinian refugee camps in the h.k.of jordan beginning in 1988, then egypt, then lebanon, then syria, and finally, in 2023, 4 different palestinian refugee camps surrounding nablus in the west bank, i can asseverate that they are among the very best, most charitable, well-informed, courageous, inspiring, humane, magnanimous, and honourable group of human life forms i have ever encountered in those 84 years. the zionist nazis will never destroy them. nonetheless, we must never stop supporting these extraordinary palestinians, if for no other reason than to help sanguinity persist in prevailing amongst them, particularly among the younger generations who have been so egregiously denied normal lives by their zionist oppressors... not only in the illegal state of israel, but also the zionist thugs in the UK, US, canada, australia, germany, france, and the EU's belgium.
You have a point - it is a hard choice. But ISIS is a poor analogy. After the western backed fall of Assad by proxy ISIS which was first created by the U.S. to help destroy Iraq's infrastructure and then labeled "terrorists", the head of the ISIS insurgency backed by USrael that then brought about regime change in Syria (along with the brutal sanctions), Jolani, who had a bounty on his head, was then made "President" of Syria by US, UK and Israel to further balkanize it and hand part of it off to Israel. So suddenly no longer "terrorists." And Netanyahu has been hiring ISIS to both steal food and shoot Palestinians at the "aid" massacres and more, to kill Palestinian police and destroy their civil structures from within.
The same scenario played out in Afghanistan. When the US abruptly pulled out, breaking all promises to the Afghani's, Al Qaeda/ISIS was installed who promised to guard the TAPI pipeline as well as take the Afghani's back to the stone age. The women and children are suffering terribly and the men are in constant danger. The power and hunger games the Empire are playing are truly ruthless and kafkaesqe, morphing expedient elite "laws" on a dime (or rather multi-billion dollar dimes). I admire every person with the courage to confront these dark forces.
Be aware that all UK electronic communication is monitored by RAF Mendwith Hill, (information in the public domain.) certainly key words will trigger a red flag.
Which means it’s even more important to call out the absurdity of a chant about mass murderers being deemed worse, being classified as terrorism, than those who carried out the slaughter.
I don't think it is hypocrisy. It is simply plain Nazi racism. Ubermenschen can protest and act, but Untermenschen are called "terrorists". The term "terrorism" was declared to be applied to Palestinians and Palestine's freedom struggle by Netanyahu after Entebbe raid. It was meant to signify the people who Zionists believe do not deserve to be seen as fully human and are seen as inherently inferior, according to their "Bible". Chaim Weizmann, the architect of the State of Israel, said "There is a fundamental difference between a Jew and an Arab" and Herzl called the indigenous Palestinians (of all ethnic persuasion) "wild beasts".
Britain follows suit and declares Palestinian solidarity "terrorist" because in British elite' world Palestinians are subhuman and ought to be brought to heel.
I can’t march today but def would have had it been possible. I’m tempted to join Palestine Action out of solidarity with Gazans. Would I really get 14 years? I’m so disappointed in the moral cowardice shown by Labour. And by the BBC, come to that.
As far as I'm aware the police and the judiciary -have- to follow the word of the law, even if they disagree with it. I imagine most judges would give you the absolute minimum punishment possible, but even that could be after an undetermined time without bail awaiting trial in prison. There's also a chance you could be "made an example of" or just have a Zionist judge.
I'm not familiar with the legislation, but my vague memories of it are that the terrorism laws were very much about stripping everyone detained under them of their normal rights. For now I worked very much refrain from supporting PA in any way that can be traced back to you. Also I think they've disbanded anyway and we can all just support a different group with a new name
I am trying to connect the dots. Let's see if I can make the leap between the points raised in this insightful article and the fact that Yvette Cooper received £215,00 from Israel. Unconscionable!
You have just summarised the intention behind current government actions.
It is to create a fog of uncertainty around definitions of illegality, like those featured in Kafka or Orwell, so that we don't know where the boundary is, whether we are in danger of overstepping it, or indeed whether we already have done so.
It creates a mindset of fear, in which every action we take carries with it a possibility that one morning we just might be woken at 4am, or picked up on the street, and taken in for questioning. We won't know the logic behind the questions, and we aren't allowed to ask, only to answer. We know we're being investigated for committing a crime, but nobody will say what it is. It's even possible that the definition might extend to our opinions, and just saying something might invoke a penalty for thoughtcrime.
Much, much safer to remain silent. To say nothing. And that's what they are trying to achieve: to chill action and debate.
There is a logic to what the government has done. People need to get it into their heads that “their” government is coming for them. They came for Muslims, they came for Palestinians, they came for the homeless, now they come for you.
Laura of Normal Island News had an idea; the group reforms but calls itself “Yvette Cooper”. Let’s see them proscribe that.
Logic as well as morality seems to have disappeared down the rabbit hole.
So if the proscribed group changes its name, as many are suggesting, how might that affect its proscription? Would our right-wing Labour government have to bring amended legislation to Parliament each time?
I genuinely don't know! I'm not sure any of this has been thought through.
i'm prone to names like Hello, or AND, normal extremely frequented words
I do hope so!👍🏼🤞🏼
So the state has achieved its objective Ricky. For the record, I support the actions of Palestine Action, so should everybody else!
I support the actions of Palestine Action too. Last week on the Palestine march in Leeds, one of the chants was “We are all Palestine Action”. Today, not a mention of it. Perhaps that was wise, but it felt cowardly.
It's not cowardly to not unnecessarily break any laws. You can't help anyone if you're caught up in Kafkaesque litigation, or worse, in prison. In fact I would suggest editing your comment as, bizarrely, under the law, which I'm pretty sure the police and judiciary have to uphold, saying you support a proscribed group is the same as supporting ISIS. All it takes is some Zionist gobshite to report your comment and the bureaucracy would begin.
I feel your struggle with it appearing "cowardly", but there'll be a time to risk ourselves no doubt and this is not it.
If I’m reported, then so be it. At 70, I refuse to give in to this shit, given the horrors of what’s being done to Palestinians.
at 84, it is impossible to disagree w/ you morag... too many years under my sagggy-baggy abdomen having to bear witness to "THIS SHIT of what's being gone to palestinians". having volunteered in palestinian refugee camps in the h.k.of jordan beginning in 1988, then egypt, then lebanon, then syria, and finally, in 2023, 4 different palestinian refugee camps surrounding nablus in the west bank, i can asseverate that they are among the very best, most charitable, well-informed, courageous, inspiring, humane, magnanimous, and honourable group of human life forms i have ever encountered in those 84 years. the zionist nazis will never destroy them. nonetheless, we must never stop supporting these extraordinary palestinians, if for no other reason than to help sanguinity persist in prevailing amongst them, particularly among the younger generations who have been so egregiously denied normal lives by their zionist oppressors... not only in the illegal state of israel, but also the zionist thugs in the UK, US, canada, australia, germany, france, and the EU's belgium.
You have a point - it is a hard choice. But ISIS is a poor analogy. After the western backed fall of Assad by proxy ISIS which was first created by the U.S. to help destroy Iraq's infrastructure and then labeled "terrorists", the head of the ISIS insurgency backed by USrael that then brought about regime change in Syria (along with the brutal sanctions), Jolani, who had a bounty on his head, was then made "President" of Syria by US, UK and Israel to further balkanize it and hand part of it off to Israel. So suddenly no longer "terrorists." And Netanyahu has been hiring ISIS to both steal food and shoot Palestinians at the "aid" massacres and more, to kill Palestinian police and destroy their civil structures from within.
The same scenario played out in Afghanistan. When the US abruptly pulled out, breaking all promises to the Afghani's, Al Qaeda/ISIS was installed who promised to guard the TAPI pipeline as well as take the Afghani's back to the stone age. The women and children are suffering terribly and the men are in constant danger. The power and hunger games the Empire are playing are truly ruthless and kafkaesqe, morphing expedient elite "laws" on a dime (or rather multi-billion dollar dimes). I admire every person with the courage to confront these dark forces.
Be aware that all UK electronic communication is monitored by RAF Mendwith Hill, (information in the public domain.) certainly key words will trigger a red flag.
Last week they were not banned.🤔
Which means it’s even more important to call out the absurdity of a chant about mass murderers being deemed worse, being classified as terrorism, than those who carried out the slaughter.
I don't think it is hypocrisy. It is simply plain Nazi racism. Ubermenschen can protest and act, but Untermenschen are called "terrorists". The term "terrorism" was declared to be applied to Palestinians and Palestine's freedom struggle by Netanyahu after Entebbe raid. It was meant to signify the people who Zionists believe do not deserve to be seen as fully human and are seen as inherently inferior, according to their "Bible". Chaim Weizmann, the architect of the State of Israel, said "There is a fundamental difference between a Jew and an Arab" and Herzl called the indigenous Palestinians (of all ethnic persuasion) "wild beasts".
Britain follows suit and declares Palestinian solidarity "terrorist" because in British elite' world Palestinians are subhuman and ought to be brought to heel.
I can’t march today but def would have had it been possible. I’m tempted to join Palestine Action out of solidarity with Gazans. Would I really get 14 years? I’m so disappointed in the moral cowardice shown by Labour. And by the BBC, come to that.
As far as I'm aware the police and the judiciary -have- to follow the word of the law, even if they disagree with it. I imagine most judges would give you the absolute minimum punishment possible, but even that could be after an undetermined time without bail awaiting trial in prison. There's also a chance you could be "made an example of" or just have a Zionist judge.
I'm not familiar with the legislation, but my vague memories of it are that the terrorism laws were very much about stripping everyone detained under them of their normal rights. For now I worked very much refrain from supporting PA in any way that can be traced back to you. Also I think they've disbanded anyway and we can all just support a different group with a new name
I understood a group named 'Yvette Cooper' had been set up!
I am trying to connect the dots. Let's see if I can make the leap between the points raised in this insightful article and the fact that Yvette Cooper received £215,00 from Israel. Unconscionable!
Given that Israel is a terrorist state, should she be labelled as a terrorist?
Israel are using their military armed forces, terrorists are civilians or not state sanctioned.
Israelis a terrorist state, therefore their military are terrorists too.
Great point!
I am PALESTINE ACTION.
Resistance ist verboten. Ditto questions.
This is our demoKKKra$y.
I wonder if this fascistic proscription of the group in question is even enforceable. Police struggle to do the basics, never mind this lunacy
even if it is not, police have been using the Terrorism Act to silence people because they can wait literally years for their court date
You have just summarised the intention behind current government actions.
It is to create a fog of uncertainty around definitions of illegality, like those featured in Kafka or Orwell, so that we don't know where the boundary is, whether we are in danger of overstepping it, or indeed whether we already have done so.
It creates a mindset of fear, in which every action we take carries with it a possibility that one morning we just might be woken at 4am, or picked up on the street, and taken in for questioning. We won't know the logic behind the questions, and we aren't allowed to ask, only to answer. We know we're being investigated for committing a crime, but nobody will say what it is. It's even possible that the definition might extend to our opinions, and just saying something might invoke a penalty for thoughtcrime.
Much, much safer to remain silent. To say nothing. And that's what they are trying to achieve: to chill action and debate.
Iran must get Nuclear weapons because the Devil IsRael States of America.
Alice Through the Looking Glass politics. Which I believe is also Trump's politics. So Trump is Starmer's guru?
These people are clearly making shit up as they go along.
There is a logic to what the government has done. People need to get it into their heads that “their” government is coming for them. They came for Muslims, they came for Palestinians, they came for the homeless, now they come for you.
Laura of Normal Island News had an idea; the group reforms but calls itself “Yvette Cooper”. Let’s see them proscribe that.
Flood the streets with people......they can't put everyone in prison!
Is it possible to make over your Fine to a Charity?
Down the shit hole!